Exclusive: Nagase Hiroshi Interview
Interview by Andrej Jasenc
Inside Ninjutsu is thrilled to announce an exclusive conversation between martial arts expert Andrej Jasenc and Dai-shihan Nagase Hiroshi, one of the most respected figures in the world of Bujinkan Budō Taijutsu. The interview offers rare insights ahead of Nagase’s first-ever European seminar in Slovenia this August.
This landmark event will be part of the celebration marking 30 years of organized Bujinkan practice in Slovenia, drawing practitioners from across the globe eager to learn directly from one of Japan’s leading martial arts instructors.
The Legacy of Nagase Hiroshi
Dai-shihan Nagase Hiroshi holds the highest Bujinkan rank of 15th Dan and possesses Menkyo Kaiden licenses in Bō-shuriken, Gyokko-ryū, and Kotō-ryū. A recognized authority on Japanese weaponry, he is widely known for his expertise with Shuriken (throwing spikes), Fuki-ya (blowgun), and Kyoketsu-shōge (dagger with a rope and weight).
As a senior instructor at the prestigious Bujinkan Honbu Dōjō and founder of a private Dōjō in Nagare-yama, Nagase emphasizes realistic, practical self-defense techniques built on natural and effective movement. His teaching attracts martial artists from around the world, and his upcoming European seminar promises an unparalleled training opportunity.
Book Your Place
The Bujinkan Nagase Hiroshi Tai-kai will offer three full days of immersive training focused on essential Bujinkan techniques and weapons skills. Online registration is now open at www.nagasetaikai.com, with spaces expected to fill quickly for this highly anticipated seminar.
Interview
Nagase Sensei, can you introduce yourself?
My name is Nagase Hiroshi. I was 64 years old this May, but I still exercise and work energetically. Until retirement, I worked for 40 years, while at the same time practicing martial arts in the background. Now I work part-time as a van driver in a nursing home. With this, I want to make my contribution to society, even if only a small one. I live in Nagare-yama, which is about halfway between Noda and Kashiwa. I also have a very cute 5-year-old granddaughter and a 2-year-old grandson.
How did you became involved in Budō?
I was interested in Jūdo and Karate from a young age, and by chance a colleague from the company where I was employed at the time introduced me to Bujinkan Dōjō. And so I began.
Was Ninjutsu your first Martial Art?
Yes.
How did you become interested in Ninjutsu?
I loved the Ninja Manga which I read when I was little.
What does Ninjutsu means to you? How would you explain it?
When I was younger, it mainly meant action to me, but now it means a way to maintain a healthy mind and body as a way to live a quality life. When it comes to Ninjutsu, technique and form are of course important, but I think the way you live as a Ninja is even more important. I believe a true Ninja works to protect himself, his family and his country.
When did you start Ninjutsu practice and who was your first teacher?
I started practicing about 45 years ago. My teacher was Noguchi Sensei, today's new Kotō-ryū Sōke.
When did you become a student of Hatsumi Sensei?
I practiced at Noguchi Dōjō for over 10 years, and then I also started attending Hatsumi Sensei's practices. That was about 35 years ago.
When you passed Go-dan test?
In 1989.
How was it?
At the time, the 5th Dan tests were done exclusively by Hatsumi Sensei, and for the tests he used bamboo Shinai sword. Hatsumi Sensei swung down very hard, all the way to the ground and if you didn't move away, you got hit hard on the head. I failed twice. Of course it was painful. But the third time I used a good Taihen-jutsu technique and completely twisted and rolled diagonally backwards, dodging Sensei's sword swing. Shihan Muramatsu, who was present at the time, praised me and said that he had not seen such a good test in a long time.
How often did you attend classes?
Despite the work, I tried to attend the classes three times a week, and at the same time I practiced a lot by myself.
There was no Honbu Dōjō at that time, so where did Hatsumi Sensei teach?
Hatsumi Sensei taught on Tuesdays and Fridays, and it's true, there was no Honbu Dōjō at that time. Therefore, Sensei taught at Noguchi Dōjō in Noda and Ishizuka Dōjō, which he had in Kashiwa. When Tanemura was still here, he sometimes taught at his Dōjō in Matsubushi as well.
What did practice look like at that time?
At that time, there were very few foreign students, but there were many Japanese students at Sensei’s classes. As you know, Hatsumi Sensei's movements right before he retired were soft and relaxed, movements that confused his opponent's psyche instead of catching his body. It was as if he was hypnotizing his opponent rather than performing a fighting technique on him. But when Hatsumi Sensei was young, he was physically very strong and every technique he made was sharp and precise, and the pain in the vital points caused by his fists was extremely painful. The practice at that time was very intense and very painful, and our bodies were covered in bruises after each class. Therefore, I believe that Bujinkan members who have only seen Hatsumi Sensei's teaching methods in his later years cannot understand the true secrets of Bujinkan Taijutsu.
Looks like the way of practicing has changed a lot since then. Why do you think the Bujinkan went through such a change?
I think a big factor in this is that Hatsumi Sensei started to focus more on foreign students who were not used to the kind of practice that Japanese students do. In addition, more and more people came to his classes. Therefore, scenes of the Honbu Dōjō practice where Hatsumi Sensei taught in his later years may give the wrong impression. After all, if there are 100 people in such a small space, it is simply not possible to perform techniques as you would otherwise.
Hatsumi Sensei is a special man. Can you share a story about him?
In 1995, I accompanied Sensei to Tai-kai in Valencia, Spain. At that time, I was still fairly unknown in the world of Bujinkan, but during Tai-kai, I always stood next to Hatsumi Sensei as his bodyguard, holding a Bō-shuriken in my hand at all times. At that time, neither Hatsumi Sensei nor any other instructor taught Bō-shuriken, but I gave a demonstration for the first time, and I think that was the first time the world knew that Bujinkan also had Bō-shuriken techniques.
Before Hatsumi Sensei retired he also appointed new Sōke for traditions he inherited after Takamatsu Sensei. Of course, nobody doubts his decision but what do you think about new situation? Will new Sōke take traditions in new directions?
That's right, Hatsumi Sensei has handed down the nine traditions to the eight new holders and I believe that each of them will do their best to protect the tradition given to them. But I also think that the responsibility of each new Sōke is very big.
A few times we saw you with Hatsumi Sensei on his foreign trips. How many times have you traveled with him?
As I said before, in 1995 I accompanied Hatsumi Sensei to Valencia, Spain for a week and to the Canary Islands for a week.
What was your role on these trips?
My role was to take care of Hatsumi Sensei and popularize Bō-shuriken.
What is your relationship with Hatsumi Sensei now? Do you still meet up with him?
Once a month I have a private lunch with him, where we talk about current affairs and have fun in a group of about four people.
We know you received several Menkyo Kaiden from Hatsumi Sensei. What are they for?
From Hatsumi Sensei I received the Bō-shuriken Menkyo Kaiden.
Did you also receive qualifications from the new Sōke?
Ishizuka Sensei gave me Gyokko-ryū Kosshi-jutsu Menkyo Kaiden and Noguchi Sensei gave me Kotō-ryū Koppō-jutsu Menkyo Kaiden.
What does it mean to be Menkyo Kaiden?
Menkyo Kaiden is a license granted by a master or teacher of Bugei and Bujutsu arts to a suitable student who has mastered the secrets of a particular tradition. This qualification is highly regarded and is not something that is easily conferred.
You are best known as a Bujinkan Shuriken master. How did you become interested in Shuriken-jutsu?
When I heard through Kuden (oral tradition) about throwing spike-like objects, I first realized how difficult it is to throw such objects without it spinning. Because the throwing method is so difficult, I don't think anyone seriously tried to practice it at the time. But I never had fun doing the same things that others were doing, so I devoted myself to learning these techniques. Probably no one did it because it was so difficult. The same applies to Kyoketsu-shōge, where the technique is to wrap the loop around opponent’s arm that normally remains motionless.
But the opponent's arm cannot remain motionless forever. So I first worked out a technique where I blinded my opponent with a rope attack, then catching the moment when he covered his eyes with both hands, and throw the loop in order catch both, his head and hands.
Which other weapons do you like?
In addition to Shuriken, I also like Jūtte, Tessen, Fuki-ya, Kyoketsu-shōge, Hanbō and Rokushaku-bō.
What is more important in practice, Taijutsu or Bukijutsu?
Both are equally important. In my Dōjō, we practice Taijutsu techniques with a stick or other weapons, while maintaining the same movements. This is because we follow the teachings of Hatsumi Sensei. When I first performed the technique in front of everyone at Honbu Dōjō, Hatsumi Sensei immediately told me, ``Try your current Taijutsu with a stick! It's the same!' In short, if we look at the Bōjutsu level of a certain person, we can immediately tell the level of his Taijutsu as well.
Is religion important for Budōka?
Of course, this is very important. Hatsumi Sensei has established many Shibu Dōjōs (branches) all over the world, but he didn’t teach much on the subject. However, Takamatsu Sensei seems to have studied religion as much as martial arts.
When did you opened your own Dōjō and start teaching?
I opened my Bujinkan Nagase Dojo in 1990, shortly after passing the Go-dan test.
How often do you teach?
At the moment I regularly teach twice a week at Honbu Dōjō and twice a week at my Nagare-yama Dōjō. In addition, I teach twice a month at Ogikubo Dōjō Cultural Center and twice a month at Kitasenju Dōjō Cultural Center. There are also classes at my home garage Bō-shuriken Dōjō at least once a month or as requested.
Do you have many students?
All together I have somewhere between 15 and 20 Japanese students, and there are also three foreigners who live in Japan and regularly come to my classes. But I also have some students who live abroad and I'm so happy that there are people who love me regardless of who I am.
You also have many foreign students, who are those?
More and more people are coming to my classes and officially there are overseas Nagase Dōjō branches in Michigan USA led by Michael Asuncion, Croatia led by Matija Kurtanjek, Mexico led by Roberto Cedillo and Australia led by Lindsay Hawke.
What does it mean to be good Deshi?
A good student must not only practice martial arts for a long time and consistently, but in addition to martial arts he must also have a job to be a healthy member of society. He must know how to take care of himself and his family. He must be able to take actions that can contribute to society for the good of the world and people.
Only you and Ishizuka Sensei taught during the COVID pandemic when other Dōjōs were closed. How come?
First of all, the number of students in my classes is not large, so there was not much danger. We all made sure we were healthy. I don't teach to make money, but to further my education. I value my own solo practice more than teaching others. I believe that a good way of living in the true sense of the word is to focus primarily on improving yourself and not on other people. Just look closely at the Kanji character for Nin. You will see that under the 'blade' is the heart. It is a teaching that says how we must constantly refine our mind, spirit and heart, or it will rust like a neglected sword. I myself adhere to this teaching and continue to practice alone when no one is watching. And to survive, I have to work like any other normal member of society who wants to support himself and his family. Since ancient times, Ninja warriors have performed many jobs and lived in such a way that no one recognized them as Ninjas. I still live by that teaching myself.
What do you concentrate on in your classes? What is the 'theme' of your teaching?
Of course, we need to master the techniques and forms that will enable us to defend ourselves, but I think that self-defense in the truest sense of the word is a way of life. First and foremost, this includes taking care of maintaining good mental and physical health. If we want to survive, we also have to have a job to feed our family. That's why I act like that myself. It is very difficult to learn all the techniques of the nine schools, and for many, learning these techniques becomes the main goal. However, learning the techniques is only a means. No matter how many techniques you know, they are all meaningless if you don't know how to use them properly. That’s why I myself practice and teach in such a way that we do not become collectors of techniques. My Dōjō is known as Shinken-gata Dōjō (Dōjō where real effective techniques are practiced).
You've already held seminars abroad. Do you plan to do more?
Requests and invitations come from all over the world. After I was in Mexico, corona virus stopped us all. But Hatsumi Sensei and Ishizuka Sensei are also of the opinion that it is better not to go abroad too often. When the time is right, Kami-sama will lead us. Like for this year’s August Tai-kai in Slovenia, organized by my long time Buyū Andrej Jasenc.
What are your plans for the future in your practice?
I will continue to practice alone every day, just like before. But I would like to build a Dōjō that would be all mine and where I could practice whenever I wanted. I would also like to use my example to show people how to live in the true sense of the word.
Lastly, do you have any advice or message for the readers of this article?
Every person is born to be successful. Not just martial arts, it can be music, any other art or sport, or just being a normal father who works hard to take care of his family. We have to be successful for that too. I believe this is the real art of living and life training. All kinds of hardships and trials await us in life, but we came to this world to experience it. We were born to become better according to our strengths, so let's focus with all our strength on how we can enrich our lives and the lives of others. I think the state of 'zero' is one in which we can place everything correctly in the present moment of our life. Enlightenment cannot be achieved by sitting quietly and meditating. I think that we only feel truly alive when we create something focused with our whole being. In my case it's Martial Artd and survival techniques, but I think it's all Ninjutsu.
Thank you Nagase Sensei for you time.
You're welcome, I hope these messages will useful to someone.
